The St. John Genealogy

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Raoul d'Ivry, de Sancto Johanne

Raoul d'Ivry, de Sancto Johanne

Male Abt 1025 - Aft 1121  (~ 97 years)

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  • Name Raoul d'Ivry 
    • There might be a missing generation here.

      He may have a son Roger d'Ivry that fills the missing generation, thus making him the father of Thomas, John, William and Roger St. John in the next generation. William of Roger de Ivry held St. John land in Oxfordshire, England.

      (1 Apr 2016 Suzanne St. John)
    • RAOUL ST. JOHN, I10624 Rodulf, Esperleng Raoul / Radulfum / Radulfi / Roger / Robert / Ralph of Ivrea? / ‘de Sancto Johanne’/ ‘de Bayeux?’, ‘de Someri? died presumably after 1121 (but if he is actually Roger d’Ivry then presumably before 1111). On Christmas Day of 1053, Raoul (probably d’Ivry) expressed the desire to be ‘the man’ of Mont St. Michel’s ‘Saint John at the end of the sea’ and witnessed the charter making it so as he became then known as Raoul de Sancto Johanne; thus the St. John surname for this family was born. The charter for the abbey was laid on the altar of Rouen Cathedral on Christmas Day 1053 and signed in the presence of Duke William (the Conqueror) and Archbishop Mauger. Hilger de Ardevone, Thescelin his brother, Reginald de Grandivalle and Ralf de Sancto-Johanne" are named as "St. Michael´s men" present in the charter dated to [1053] under which William Pichenoht donated property to Mont Saint-Michel, witnessed by "Ricardi vicecomitis, Hilgerii de Ardevone, Thescelini fratris eius, Raginaldi de Grandivilla, Radulfi de Sancto Johanne". Raoul also witnessed a grant in 1066 indicating he was with close association to William the Conqueror at the time of the Norman Invasion. “The men of St. Johan” are spoken of at Hastings in the Roman de Rou and their leader, according to family tradition, had the charge of the transport and munitions of the invading army, or which reason his posterity ever after bore the horse-hemes (or collars) as their cognizance. Raoul de Saint-Jean was also known as Seigneur [the lord of the manor] de Saint-Jean. The Chronique de Normandie, based on le Roman de Rou, names "le sire de S. Jehan" among those who took part in the conquest of England in 1066. It was most likely, that Raoul de Sancto Johanne was the St. John actively involved with the Norman Invasion and rewarded with vast lands for this service that subsequently passed on to his heirs.
      It was likely he, anglicized to Roger rather than Ralph that is recorded in the Domesday Book as Roger d’Ivry. If this supposition is correct, it is likely then that he is the Roger d’Ivry that married Adelina Grandmesnil, the daughter of Hughes de Grandmesnil & his wife Adelisa [Aelis] de Beaumont-sur-Oise. Orderic Vitalis names “Adelinam et Hadvisam, Rochesiam et Mathildem et Agnetem” as the daughters of “Hugo de Grentemaisnilio” and his wife “Adelidem filiam Ivonis comitis de Bellomonte”, adding that Adeline married “Rogerio de Ibreio”. Domesday Book records “the wife of Roger d´Ivry” holding land in Islip, Kiddington and Oddington in Oxfordshire. Orderic Vitalis records that, about thirty years after the burial of his father, “Hugo de Monte-Pincionis” visited Ouche with “Radulfum [not Roger] primogenitum suum...et Mathildem uxorem suam...Hugonis de Grentesmaisnil filia”, adding that the latter was then mourning “sororem...suam Adelinam” who had recently died (sometime after May 1110-1 when Adalina deeded a charter; The Chronicle of Abingdon records that "nobilis...matrona Athelina de Hiuerio" donated land "apud...Faineote" to Abingdon in [1110/11] and that “filia eiusdem Adeliz” later confirmed the donation. (Note: Thomas St. John, son of Raoul/(alleged)Roger, was a witness to this charter).
      Roger d’Ivry, Seigneur d’Ivry, Butler (Pincerna) of William I King of England founded the abbey of Ivry-la-Balluis. An undated manuscript records that “Robertus de Oili” built "castellum Oxonii” in 1072 and that "Robertus de Oili et Rogerus de Iveri" built the church of St George in Oxford castle in 1074. Domesday Book records land held by “Roger d´Ivry” in Bucklebury, Eagle, Blewbury and Gainfield Hundreds in Berkshire, land in Ixhill, Mursley and Rowley Hundreds in Buckinghamshire, and "Robert d´Oilly and Roger d´Ivry" holding Stowe in Buckinghamshire from the bishop of Bayeux in Buckinghamshire and Arncott from the abbot of Abingdon St Mary in Oxfordshire, "Roger d´Ivry" then having other properties in Oxfordshire. He held Cottisford from his father-in-law in 1086 and recorded in the Domesday Book.
    Suffix de Sancto Johanne 
    Born abt. 1025  Rouen, Normandy, France Find all individuals with events at this location 
    • Dating is non-verifiable. There could be a missing generation here held by Roger d'Ivry.

      Rodul d'Ivry b. abt. 950- d. 1015 (previous generation)
      Raoul d'Ivry de Sancto Johanne b. abt. 970-bef. 1015
      Roger d'Ivry b. abt. 1000-1035 (possible missing generation)

      Dating based on previous historian suppositions and not based on primary dated information.
    Gender Male 
    Fact 2 abt. 1045  Normandy, France Find all individuals with events at this location 
    birth of child, Thomas 
    Fact 2 abt. 1050  Normandy, France Find all individuals with events at this location 
    birth of child, William 
    Fact 2 abt. 1052  Normandy, France Find all individuals with events at this location 
    birth of child, Roger 
    Fact 1 25 Dec 1053  Rouen, Normandy, France Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Saint-Jean-le-Thomas (Manche, arr. Avranches, con Sartilly)
    1053 25 Dec ? Age: 43
    Rouen, Normandy France
    witnessed charter 25 Dec. 1053 in Rouen Cathedral with Duke William and Archbishop Mauger 
    • Raoul d?Ivry becomes Raoul de Sancto Johanne
      On Christmas Day of 1053, Raoul d?Ivry expressed the desire to be ?the man? of Mont St. Michel?s ?Saint John after the end of the sea? and witnessed the charter making it so as he became then known as Raoul de Sancto Johanne; thus the St. John surname for this family was born. The charter for the abbey was laid on the altar of Rouen Cathedral on Christmas Day 1053 and signed in the presence of Duke William (the Conqueror) and Archbishop Mauger.[ [1]] "Hilger de Ardevone, Thescelin his brother, Reginald de Grandivalle and Ralf de Sancto-Johanne"are named as "St. Michael´s men"present in the charter dated to [1053] under which "William Pichenoht" donated property to Mont Saint-Michel, witnessed by "?Ricardi vicecomitis, Hilgerii de Ardevone, Thescelini fratris eius, Raginaldi de Grandivilla, Radulfi de Sancto Johanne" [2]. Raoul also witnessed a grant in 1066 indicating he was still alive and with close association to William the Conqueror at the time of the Norman Invasion. Raoul de Saint-Jean was also known as Seigneur [the lord of the manor] de Saint-Jean. The Chronique de Normandie, based on le Roman de Rou, names "le sire de S. Jehan"among those who took part in the conquest of England in 1066 [3]. It was most likely, that Raoul de Sancto Johanne was the St. John actively involved with the Norman Invasion and rewarded with vast lands for this service that subsequently passed on to his heirs.

      [[1]] This Raoul was ancestor of Thomas, William, Roger, & John. Complete Peerage XI:340-1

      [2] Round (1899), 724, p. 259.

      [3]Extrait de la Chronique de Normandie, RHGF XIII, p. 237
    Fact 2 abt. 1055  Normandy, France Find all individuals with events at this location 
    birth of child, John 
    Fact 1 1066  Normandy, France Find all individuals with events at this location 
    witnessed a charter 
    Fact 3 Normandy, France Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Agnes is said to be a child of this family. Sibling to Thomas and John because her son is called "nepos of Thomas and John". Nepos can mean nephew or grandchild. Agnes is probably one of the daughters of Thomas or John and Agnes probably married a son of either Thomas or John (but who assumed a different surname) because her son was born in the next century, much too far out to make his mother their sister. 
    Generation 03 
    MILI 28 Sep 1106 

    The Battle of Tinchebray


    The Battle of Tinchebray (alternate spellings Tinchebrai or Tenchebrai) was fought September 28, 1106, in the town of Tinchebray (in today's Orne département of France), Normandy, between an invading force led by King Henry I of England, and his older brother Robert Curthose, the Duke of Normandy. Henry's knights won a decisive victory, capturing Robert and imprisoning him in England (in Devizes Castle) and then Wales until Robert's death (in Cardiff Castle).
    The previous year Henry had invaded Normandy, taking Bayeux and Caen. He was forced to break off his campaign owing to political problems arising from the Investiture Controversy. With these settled, he returned to Normandy in the spring of 1106. After quickly taking the fortified abbey of Saint-Pierre sur Dives (near Falaise), Henry turned south and besieged the castle of Tinchebray, on a hill above the town. Tinchebray is on the border of the county of Mortain, in the southwest of Normandy, and was held by William, Count of Mortain, who was one of the few important Norman barons still loyal to Robert. Duke Robert then brought up his forces to break the siege, and, after some unsuccessful negotiations, decided that a battle in the open was his best option.
    Henry's army was organized into three groups. The main two were commanded by Ranulf of Bayeux, Robert de Beaumont, 1st Earl of Leicester, and William de Warenne, 2nd Earl of Surrey. In addition, he had a reserve, commanded by Elias I of Maine, out of sight on the flank. Also on Henry's side were Alan IV, Duke of Brittany, William, Count of Évreux, Ralph of Tosny, Robert of Montfort, and Robert of Grandmesnil. On Robert Curthose's side were William, Count of Mortain, and Robert of Bellême, 3rd Earl of Shrewsbury.
    The battle itself only lasted an hour. Notably, Henry ordered much of his force of knights to dismount, as he did himself: unusual for Norman battle tactics, infantry played a decisive role. The Count of Évreux charged the front line, comprising troops of Bayeux, Avranches and the Cotentin. The intervention of Henry's reserve proved decisive. Most of Robert's army was captured or killed. Besides Robert himself, those captured include Edgar Atheling (uncle of Henry's wife), and William, count of Mortain. Robert de Bellême, commanding the Duke's rear guard, turned his back on the duke and led the retreat saving himself from capture or death. Most of the prisoners were released, but Robert Curthose and William of Mortain were to spend the rest of their lives in captivity. But Robert Curthose had a legitimate son, William Clito, whose claims to the dukedom of Normandy led to several rebellions that continued through the rest of Henry's reign. 
    Name Radulf von Ivry
    Radulf von Bayeux 
    Name Oxfordshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Roger d'Ivry is named in the Domesday Book. 
    Died aft. 1121  St. Jean-le-Thomas, Normandy, France Find all individuals with events at this location 
    • This 1121 date is based on J. H. Round's dating of records found at Mont St. Michel. The dates could actually be as many as 10-20+ years earlier. The lack of certain dates makes it hard to confirm the pedigree for these earliest generations. (17 Apr 2016 Suzanne St. John)
    Record Status 22 Apr 2016 
    Record Complete  
    Notes 
    • Witnessed by Radulpho de Sumeri (father)?
      bef. 1161
      RALPH [I] de Somery (-after [1161]). ?G. Painel?, considering the proposal of ?Radulfi Painel patris mei?, founded Dudley priory, for the salvation of ?Isabellæ uxoris meæ et Roberti filii mei?, by undated charter (dated by Dugdale to "before 1161"), witn
    Person ID I10624  St. John Origin and Ancestry DNA Database | St. John Generation One - Raoul de Sancto Johanne
    Last Modified 21 Jul 2016 

    Father Rodulf d'Ivry, of Vaudreuil,   b. abt. 945, Ivry La Bataille, Eure, Normandy, France Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. aft. 1011, Ivry La Bataille, Eure, Normandy, France Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 67 years) 
    Relationship Birth 
    Mother Eremburge,   d. 1011 
    Relationship Birth 
    Family ID F3447  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Children 
    +1. _____ St. John, (Alleged)  [Birth]
    +2. Thomas St. John,   b. 1045,   d. 1121-1140  (Age 95 years)  [Birth]
     3. William St. John,   b. abt. 1050, Normandy, France Find all individuals with events at this location  [Birth]
    +4. Roger St. John, of Compton, Sussex,   b. 1052  [Birth]
    +5. John St. John,   b. abt. 1055, St. Jean-le-Thomas, Normandy, France Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. aft. 1149, Oxford, England Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 95 years)  [Birth]
    Last Modified 4 Jun 2016 
    Family ID F3446  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Event Map
    Link to Google MapsBorn - abt. 1025 - Rouen, Normandy, France Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsFact 2 - birth of child, Thomas - abt. 1045 - Normandy, France Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsFact 2 - birth of child, William - abt. 1050 - Normandy, France Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsFact 2 - birth of child, Roger - abt. 1052 - Normandy, France Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsFact 1 - Saint-Jean-le-Thomas (Manche, arr. Avranches, con Sartilly) 1053 25 Dec ? Age: 43 Rouen, Normandy France witnessed charter 25 Dec. 1053 in Rouen Cathedral with Duke William and Archbishop Mauger - 25 Dec 1053 - Rouen, Normandy, France Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsFact 2 - birth of child, John - abt. 1055 - Normandy, France Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsFact 1 - witnessed a charter - 1066 - Normandy, France Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsFact 3 - Agnes is said to be a child of this family. Sibling to Thomas and John because her son is called "nepos of Thomas and John". Nepos can mean nephew or grandchild. Agnes is probably one of the daughters of Thomas or John and Agnes probably married a son of either Thomas or John (but who assumed a different surname) because her son was born in the next century, much too far out to make his mother their sister. - - Normandy, France Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsName - Roger d'Ivry is named in the Domesday Book. - - Oxfordshire, England Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsDied - aft. 1121 - St. Jean-le-Thomas, Normandy, France Link to Google Earth
     = Link to Google Earth 

  • Heraldry
    St. Jean-le-Thomas Coat of Arms
    St. Jean-le-Thomas Coat of Arms


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