The St. John Genealogy

Origin and Ancestry DNA database

James St. John, Convict

Male 1800 - Bef 1910  (109 years)


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  • Name James St. John 
    Suffix Convict 
    Born 1 Jan 1800  Fethard, Tipperary, Ireland Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Gender Male 
    Immigration 1840  Australia Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Convict sent to Australia from Ireland

    Name: James St John
    [James Singin]
    Age: 40
    Birth Year: abt 1800
    Birth Place: Tipperary
    Arrival Year: 1840
    Arrival State: New South Wales
    Status: M 2M 5F
    Ship: King William
    Occupation: Labourer

    Source Information
    Reakes, J., comp. Australia, Convict Index, 1788-1868 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2001.
    Original data: 1788-1868 Convict Records. Records kept at the New South Wales State Records Office, P.O. Box R625, Royal Exchange, NSW 2000; at the Archives Office of Tasmania, 77 Murray St., Hobart, TAS 7000; and at the State Records Office of Western Australia, Alexander Library, Perth Cultural Centre, Perth, WA 6000.
     
    Civil 5 Mar 1840  Tipperary, Ireland, UK Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Name: James St John
    [James Singin]
    Convicted Location: Tipperary, Ireland
    Convicted Date: 5 Mar 1840
    Age at conviction: 40
    Estimated birth year: abt 1800
    Birth Location: Tipperary, Ireland

    [see media]

    Source Information
    Ancestry.com. Australia, List of Convicts with Particulars, 1788-1842 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2008.
    Original data:
    Colonial Office and Predecessors: Alphabetical list of convicts with particulars 1788-1825; 1840-1842; (The National Archives Microfilm Publication CO 207/9); The National Archives of the UK (TNA), Kew, Surrey, England.
    In Australian archives the collection is referenced as CO207/1-3.

    http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1251&h=3914&ssrc=pt&tid=62227982&pid=34258536005&usePUB=true 
    Civil 7 Apr 1847 
    New South Wales, Australia, Certificates of Freedom, 1810-1814, 1827-1867

    Name: James St John
    Age: 47
    Birth Year: 1800
    Native Place: Fethand, County Tipperary
    Arrival Year: 1840
    Vessel: King William
    Certificate Date: 7 Apr 1847

    [see media]

    Source Citation
    State Archives NSW
    Source Information
    Ancestry.com. New South Wales, Australia, Certificates of Freedom, 1810-1814, 1827-1867 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2009.
    Original data: New South Wales Government. Butts of Certificates of Freedom. NRS 1165, 1166, 1167, 12208, 12210, reels 601, 602, 604, 982-1027. State Records Authority of New South Wales, Kingswood, New South Wales.
    © the Crown in right of the State of New South Wales and is used under licence with the permission of the State Records Authority. The State of New South Wales gives no warranty regarding the data\'s accuracy, completeness, currency or suitability for any particular purpose.

    http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1689&h=32038&ssrc=pt&tid=62227982&pid=34258536005&usePUB=true 
    Died bef. 1910 
    • Michael Patrick St. John says this is not the convict, James St. John. I agree, unless he was playing a 'con' for some reason with his identity; both arrived in 1840. I will research this more - Suzanne St. John:

      Name: James St John
      Death Date: 1877
      Death Place: New South Wales
      Father's name: John
      Registration Year: 1877
      Registration Place: Yass, New South Wales
      Registration Number: 9674

      Other details in media record:
      died 26 Feb 1877, aged 81 years (b. 1796, Ireland)
      wife Anne Frances Reilly. Her death 1879, aged 62 (b. 1817)
      married 50 years, (m. 1827 - Anne was 10 years old?)
      arrived in Australia 1877-37 yrs = 1840 (same as convict)
      no marriage cert. for James and Anne

      Could James have abandoned Mary Oats and taken up with Anne and changed details to hide identity? - Suzanne St. John 4 Apr 2017

      Source Information
      Ancestry.com. Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010.
      Original data: Compiled from publicly available sources.

      http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1779&h=3533669&ssrc=pt&tid=62227982&pid=34258536005&usePUB=true
    Notes 
    • Email from Michael Patrick St. John to Suzanne St. John:

      On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Michael STJohn wrote:

      My James St John was born circa 1800 in Country Tipperary somewhere in the area of Fethard. More details of this later.

      According to the Archdiocese of Casel & Emly on the 9/Aug/1821 James St John married Honora O'Neill in the Killenaule parish Register ref: K/AUL213. James had no address on the record, Honora's was Ballaghboy. The commemts made on the record were " O'NEILL/NEAL IN REG.

      James & Honora had the following children, ( the records are from the same Archdiocese).

      John - Baptism 11/April/1824, Parish Killenaule,address.Buffanagh, register KILLEN/1117
      James - born abt 1827
      Elizabeth - ( known as Eliza) - Baptism 10/Aug/1827,Parish Killenaule, address Ballaghboy, register KILLEN/1117
      Judith - Baptism 12/Mar/1832, Parish Boherlahan, address Newtown, register B/LAHAN/570
      Johanna - born about 1834 ( I've always thought that this & Judith are 1 & the same).
      Bridget - Baptism 12/May/1834, Parish Boherlahan, address Newtown, register B/LAHAN/570
      Michael - Baptism 1/Jan/1837, Parish DRAGAN/CLONEEN, address Kilnagranagh, register DRAN/

      James, ( I call him the convict because there are so,so many Jame's in the family, tipical Irish situ ) was tried at Tipperary on 5/Mar/1840 for "selling counterfeit coin" and "uttering base coin" ( forged coins). his age was given as 40. He was given a 7 year sentence, held at Dublin Castle until being transported to New South Wales{NSW} ( Sydney,Australia) aboard the "King William" 28/April/1840 arriving in NSW 18/Aug/1840. His address was given as Fethand (? perhaps Fethard).

      He did his 7 years and on 7/April/1847 was granted his Certificate-of-Freedom. he was said to be 47 years old then. Hence his birth about/in 1800.

      Some time in the 7 years Honora had died. I've no details of that.

      Three of James children, James 25, Eliza 22 and Bridget 18, came to Sydney on the emigrant ship "Kate" in 1852. they arrived under the scheme which brought convicts wives and their children to the Colony. At some stage Johanna also came out. All the girls married.

      James, the convict remarried 16/Jan/1854 to Mary Darling ( nee Oats) at St.Mary's Roman Catholic Church in Sydney. Mary was the widow of another former convict John Darling ( John was from Fermanagh, Ireland, anyway that's another story!

      Mary set out from Kingstown,Ireland, 20/Sept/1839 as an Irish Immigrant aboard the "Crusader" arriving in Sydney 15/Jan/1840.

      James and Mary only had one child, James Walter ( another James!!!) James Walter is my great grandfather.

      We don't know where or when James and Mary died. So records were not so good back then, other great. I have good suspicions but it is likely to turn out the the best guess will be an assumed one. I don't like that much but other than raising the dead it we all I can do.

      I've a little more on James, the convict, more on Mary, but I think will give you an idea where I'm from.

      Hope this all is ok and not too much.

      Kind regards,

      Michael St John.
    • Email from Michael Patrick St. John to Suzanne St. John:

      Michael STJohn
      Attachments [see media]
      10/15/12


      Hello Suzanne,
      Nice to here from you.
      I'm recovering from my second heart attack within the last 12 months so I'm a little slow at the moment.
      I'd left the St John tree alone for awhile and been looking at my "Connell" family from Summerhill, County Meath. Compared to the St John's they are easier to trace in Aust, although being nice catholics they breed like rabbits!

      Thanks for the attachments, I'm aware of most of it, but again thanks.

      It's always hard to determine how much to give to fellow researchers or how much they want. some people are only after their line , others want everything.
      This could turn out to be a rather LONG e-mail. YOU WILL NEED TO HAVE MY FAMILY TREE IN FRONT OF YOU WHEN LOOKING AT THIS E-MAIL..

      I have only found 3 early James St John's in AUST ( before 1852 ) they are,

      1/ James St John ( I refer to him as J1) the convict, arrived via the " King William" arrived in Aust 1840 to serve 7 years.

      2/ James St John ( J2). The son of J1 & his Irish wife Honora ( nee O'Neill). Arrived in AUST 1852 as an immigrant aboard the "Kate". on board also his sisters Eliza ( I read her as Elizabeth) & Bridget. These girls families are on the "tree" I sent you.
      By the way another daughter, Johanna ( Judith??) also came to AUST via "The Victory" which arrived in Freemantle, in the state of WA,AUST 1854.

      3/ James St John ( J3) died at Yass, in the state of NSW,AUST 26Feb1877. According to his death cert he had lived in AUST for 37 years, that makes him arriving in 1840.

      Now, before I look at some detail on each James I'm attaching the following,

      1/ The death cert of J3 who was 81 when he died.
      2/ The death cert of Mary DARLING (nee Oats) J1's AUST wife he married in 1852.
      3/ The marriage cert of James Walter St John , The son of J1 & Mary Darling.
      4/ Tipperary Family History Research ( TFHR) doc confirming the marriage of James St John & Honora O'Neill, married 9Aug1821.
      5/ TFHR doc of the Baptism of John & Elizabeth St JOHN, children of James & Honora. ( Note: I think you would know this but sometimes in IRE they " dropped" the "O" when recording info, something to do with the English wanting to "angelise" Irish names I've read somewhere).
      6/ TFHR doc of the Baptism of Judith & Bridget St JOHN, children of James & Honora.
      7/ TFHR doc of the Baptism of Michael St JOHN, son of James & Honora.


      J1 Comments:-

      We know that J1 was transported & arrived in AUST 1840 to serve 7 years. He got his Cert of freedom 7April1847. He was married to Mary Darling ( nee Oats) @ St Mary's RC church in Sydney 16 Jan 1854. All his transport & convict records point to him being born abt 1800.

      J2 Comments:-

      James the son of J1 & Honora together with 2 of his sisters, Eliza ( ??? maybe the Elizabeth in 5/ above slight difference of only 3 years in their ages) & Bridget aboard the "Kate" arriving in AUST 1852. I've not been able to find any other details on J2, No death,burial , marriage or children anywhere in any State of AUST. He disappears. I am yet to check if he left AUST. Hey, maybe he went to the USA!

      Now for the hard bits.

      J3 Comments:-

      I've never considered J3 to be J1. Looking at the death cert ( I hope it is a clear copy for you ) J3 died at age 81 making him born abt 1796. He had been in NSW,AUST for 37 years making his arrival 1840. He married Anne ( Ann) Reilly at age 50 at Yass, NSW, making the marriage date abt 1846. There is no record in NSW of their marriage, that does not bother me as lots of early peoples told "fibs" about their births/marriage dates. So if they married in 1846 abd this is J1 what about his 1852 marriage to Mary Darling? What about the Cert of Freedom only issued to J1 in 1847( after his 7 year term? My understanding is the you needed the Governor's ok to get marriage while still a convict, very rarely given and again no record. Both J3 & Anne were buried at Yass Catholic Cemetery but no record in the 3 cem's in Yass are found. I know that some of the earlier Cem records were destroyed in a bush fire abt 1940 and some of the Cem's were subject to very bad flooding. More on this below. Maybe I'm being a little bit harsh with the records because informant's, in this case Anne, sometimes did'nt know or lied about dates.
      What makes the whole James thing worse is now coming.

      Mary Darling Comments:-

      Mary married J1 in 1852, she was the widow of John Darling. Mary & John had 3 children, Ellen( born 1842), Michael( abt 1843) & James( abt 1847).
      I know little of James & Mary's early life together. They had only 1 child, James Walter St John born 13 July, 1857. It appears that Mary Darling and J1 divorced/ separated as her Death Cert only mentions her 1st hubby John Darling with no mention of J1 or James Walter. Given that her children to John were old enough to have known of her marriage to J1 and the birth of James Walter plus they must have lived together at one stage it's all rather strange.

      Sorry have not come across your Michael St John. Perhaps the 1911 cencus records of Ireland, suppose you've tried that anyway.

      I'm nearing 55 so have decided to put my home up for sale. No wife, no kids. So I'm going to travel around Aust looking for J1 to J3.

      Sorry if I've gone on to long about the J's but I've not sure enough to put J3 as the head of my ST John line ( that's why he was not on the tree I sent you). Any thoughts?

      Kind Regards

      Michael
    Person ID I105550469  St. John Origin and Ancestry DNA Database
    Last Modified 7 Jun 2018 

    DNA Tests  Y-DNA-846850 Living

    Father John St. John,   b. abt. 1755, Tipperary, Ireland, UK Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Family ID F398706  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Family 1 Honora O'Neill,   b. abt. 1800,   d. 1854, Ballyrichard, Tipperary, Ireland Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 54 years) 
    Married 9 Aug 1821  Killenaule Parish, Tipperary, Ireland, UK Find all individuals with events at this location 
    • see marriage record
    Children 
     1. Johanna St. John,   b. 1824, Tipperary, Ireland Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 16 Jan 1889, Murdered, Toodyay, WA, Australia Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 65 years)  [Birth]
    +2. John St. John,   b. 4 Nov 1824, Buffanagh, Tipperary, Ireland, UK Find all individuals with events at this location  [Birth]
     3. James St. John,   b. 1827, Ireland Find all individuals with events at this location  [Birth]
     4. Elizabeth St. John,   b. 8 Oct 1827, Ballaghboy, Tipperary, Ireland Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 1914, Sydney, Australia Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 86 years)  [Birth]
     5. Eliza St. John,   b. 1830, Ireland Find all individuals with events at this location  [Birth]
     6. Judith St. John,   b. 3 Dec 1832, Parish of Botherlahan, Newtown, Ireland Find all individuals with events at this location  [Birth]
     7. Bridget St. John,   b. 5 Dec 1834, Parish of Botherlahan, Newtown, Ireland Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 1891  (Age 56 years)  [Birth]
     8. Michael St. John,   b. 1 Jan 1837, Parish of Drangan and Cloneen, Kilnagranagh, Tipperary, Ireland Find all individuals with events at this location  [Birth]
    Last Modified 7 Jun 2018 
    Family ID F398486  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Family 2 M. Oats, Darling, St. John 
    Children 
    +1. J.W. St. John
    Last Modified 4 Apr 2017 
    Family ID F398485  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Family 3 Martha _____ 
    Last Modified 4 Apr 2017 
    Family ID F398487  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Event Map
    Link to Google MapsBorn - 1 Jan 1800 - Fethard, Tipperary, Ireland Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsCivil - Name: James St John [James Singin] Convicted Location: Tipperary, Ireland Convicted Date: 5 Mar 1840 Age at conviction: 40 Estimated birth year: abt 1800 Birth Location: Tipperary, Ireland [see media] Source Information Ancestry.com. Australia, List of Convicts with Particulars, 1788-1842 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2008. Original data: Colonial Office and Predecessors: Alphabetical list of convicts with particulars 1788-1825; 1840-1842; (The National Archives Microfilm Publication CO 207/9); The National Archives of the UK (TNA), Kew, Surrey, England. In Australian archives the collection is referenced as CO207/1-3. http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1251&h=3914&ssrc=pt&tid=62227982&pid=34258536005&usePUB=true - 5 Mar 1840 - Tipperary, Ireland, UK Link to Google Earth
     = Link to Google Earth 

  • Documents
    Australia, Convict Index, 1788-1868
    Australia, Convict Index, 1788-1868
    Name James St John
    Age 40
    Birth Year abt 1800
    Birth Place Tipperary
    Arrival Year 1840
    Arrival State New South Wales
    Status M 2M 5F
    Ship King William
    Occupation Labourer
    New South Wales, Australia, Certificates of Freedom, 1810-1814, 1827-1867
    New South Wales, Australia, Certificates of Freedom, 1810-1814, 1827-1867
    Name: James St John
    Age: 47
    Birth Year: 1800
    Native Place: Fethand, County Tipperary
    Arrival Year: 1840
    Vessel: King William
    Certificate Date: 7 Apr 1847
    Baptism Record for John St. John
Baptism Record for Elizabeth St. John
    Baptism Record for John St. John Baptism Record for Elizabeth St. John


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